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Dan, beta test my game ;)
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adam450
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Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject: Dan, beta test my game ;) Reply with quote

I know your PC is stacked more than mine, so you should have no probs. Let me know what you think.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9MJU1SO4
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dgreen
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Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6811
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:11 am    Post subject: Re: Dan, beta test my game ;) Reply with quote

adam450 wrote:
I know your PC is stacked more than mine, so you should have no probs. Let me know what you think.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9MJU1SO4


Sure thing...screens / description ?

I have about 10 test machines here and 5 in my office and few more around the world as servers
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"Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked
him a question something like "which ontological urban paridigm most influenced your design of the simulator,
the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?"
He replied, "I just kind of optimized for game play."

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adam450
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Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

www.p-o-p-games.com

Check the Dev Journal.

Also, the cursor is a bit low, aim a little high cuz your bullets might not be hitting.
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Object13
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Joined: 26 Jun 2007
Posts: 1507
Location: Yakima, WA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey dan...


you should send one of those test machines to my appartment.... i'll house it for ya. i only charge $200/month per foot.


^.^
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dgreen
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Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6811
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Object13 wrote:
hey dan...


you should send one of those test machines to my appartment.... i'll house it for ya. i only charge $200/month per foot.


^.^


so basically, you want me to give you one of my awesome computers, and pay you $200 a month?

Surprised
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I run this place.
"Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked
him a question something like "which ontological urban paridigm most influenced your design of the simulator,
the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?"
He replied, "I just kind of optimized for game play."

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rappen
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Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 6633
Location: Spijkenisse, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dgreen wrote:
Object13 wrote:
hey dan...


you should send one of those test machines to my appartment.... i'll house it for ya. i only charge $200/month per foot.


^.^


so basically, you want me to give you one of my awesome computers, and pay you $200 a month?

Surprised


sounds....reasonable
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Rappen Fo'shizzle my nizzle oh fo dizzle Razz

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I'dDoAnythingForMoney
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Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 656
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rappen wrote:
dgreen wrote:
Object13 wrote:
hey dan...


you should send one of those test machines to my appartment.... i'll house it for ya. i only charge $200/month per foot.


^.^


so basically, you want me to give you one of my awesome computers, and pay you $200 a month?

Surprised


sounds....reasonable


dam i was gonna charge $400 i just cant beat those prices Surprised
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dgreen
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Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
HI, BILLY MAYS HERE!











_________________
I run this place.
"Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked
him a question something like "which ontological urban paridigm most influenced your design of the simulator,
the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?"
He replied, "I just kind of optimized for game play."



Last edited by dgreen on Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dgreen
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Joined: 24 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HEh just tried it out, how long have been working on this game ? The cutscenes were funny you rendered them in Blender ? I saw the static images in the game directory. Did you write the engine yourself [ I assume so I saw a few dlls like newton, etc. ], if not did you use game maker / torque / unity or something?

Keep working on it, this stuff takes forever. I checked it out, but I assume you know all the stuff that needs fixing, so I won't do that...but one thing I wanna see is SSAO .... AND GPU BLENDED PROCEDURAL PHYSICS BASED ANIMATIONS .... AND SOME PARALLAX OCCLUSION MAPPING WITH OFFSET LIMITING ON CHARACTER MODELS TO INCREEASE GAMEPLAY IN THE NEXT RELEASE Shocked

Surprised


Arrgghhhhhhjskssss
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I run this place.
"Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked
him a question something like "which ontological urban paridigm most influenced your design of the simulator,
the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?"
He replied, "I just kind of optimized for game play."

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adam450
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Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How far did you get in the demo? Did you at least make it to the church, my friend had some probs.

The engine was initially 1 week to get working and then every line of code I write, I back it up in my blender script. I want it to be completely artist driven. It is really badass when you see how it works in Blender. To make AI FOV, you model a triangle and parent it to a mesh (I then compute the angle of it). For a "In_Sight_Radius" for AI, you model a 3d sphere and parent it to a mesh ( I read the scale of its transform).

I have SSAO somewhere, I just didn't want to go the route of fucking with graphics for a long time. It will look this way for a while. I have normal mapping in, but I just didnt make normal maps yet. The shadows keep popping because they are perspective, I tried for 2 mins to change to ortho but for some reason it just didn't work. I snapshot the scene every time you are 60 units away from the last snapshot (4096x4096).

"AND GPU BLENDED PROCEDURAL PHYSICS BASED ANIMATIONS"
No idea.....

In the meantime I interviewed once at a Wii/DS company and they got back to me, so if I get that, then hopefully I can still find time to finish this game.
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adam450
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I haven't even implemented 1 line of culling, I'm just iterating on everything. The scene has quite a lot of polys and if it still runs at 60fps, well no culling until I need it. I'm on like day 30 or so of working on the game now.
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dgreen
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Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam450 wrote:
And I haven't even implemented 1 line of culling, I'm just iterating on everything. The scene has quite a lot of polys and if it still runs at 60fps, well no culling until I need it. I'm on like day 30 or so of working on the game now.


Why not use orthagonal shadow maps and update them everyframe etc ?

I can see it being expensive though, even if you have a low/medium poly count scene w/ no vis culling its going to run slow.

That integration with blender sounds awesome .. keep it up!
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I run this place.
"Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked
him a question something like "which ontological urban paridigm most influenced your design of the simulator,
the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?"
He replied, "I just kind of optimized for game play."

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adam450
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea Blender has a game engine, but it sucks since its a modelling tool and has too many features. It's really slow and the programming from what I saw is visual and stupid. And nobody has released a solid demo from it. This engine could potentially sell to them. I'm talking like $50 for it. Well see if that happens.

Well I never read a paper on static shadow maps so maybe I invented it?. You never need to re-render static objects every frame just the moving ones. So I have one big ass static one (4096x4096) which takes a BIIIG hit, but like once every 5-10 seconds depending on how far you actually move. Anything dynamic can be in a player local shadow map.
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dgreen
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam450 wrote:
Yea Blender has a game engine, but it sucks since its a modelling tool and has too many features. It's really slow and the programming from what I saw is visual and stupid. And nobody has released a solid demo from it. This engine could potentially sell to them. I'm talking like $50 for it. Well see if that happens.

Well I never read a paper on static shadow maps so maybe I invented it?. You never need to re-render static objects every frame just the moving ones. So I have one big ass static one (4096x4096) which takes a BIIIG hit, but like once every 5-10 seconds depending on how far you actually move. Anything dynamic can be in a player local shadow map.


Good idea w the blender enigne, there might be a market for that engine, especially at the price point you mentioned.

Lol, I dont think you invented static shadow mapping( besides a dynamic shadowing system can inherently be static through lack of updates), but you're right the highest level in a cascaded shadow map system doesn't need to be re-rendered every frame ( except w dynamic time of day, and as long as it covers the whole scene, ie: not centered around camera & faded, and as long as all the objects are static Rolling Eyes ). In your case you just have 1 static shadow map covering the entire scene, and you blend it with a dynamic shadow map in a shader. This is similar to what I do, in terms of combining shadowing systems, I combine 4 different shadow systems [ one is totally projected down on the scene: a la Source Engine shadows from characters ]...with this system I can totally control what types of shadows each object casts, what types of shadows are projected to what surfaces, as well removing a lot of aliasing artifacts / shadow map swimming artifacts. I can also get free filtering on all hardware w/ one of the levels since they use A8R8G8B8 textures. Also each object shader only needs to sample 1-2 of the 4 shadow levels.

It's a very complex system, and I don't have the time to hardly explain it coherently lol Shocked but here -

These are the levels/types of shadowing in Warbots Online ( Urban Empires uses a different shadowing system) ...this is how I do it in Warbots [ this is current & is more advanced than the old BETA version that is available to the public ]
Quote:

-(2x) Cascaded shadow maps for static world geometry [ must be recalculated every frame because 1)one is camera depednent 2)time of day changes every second 3)to prevent rendering objects into both shadow maps you need to update the shadow map association, if the camera moves fast this requires fast updates, these are 32bit floating point textures [ 1024^2 x2 ]
- (1x) Projected shadows for dynamic geometry, I also pack a terrain clipping value into one channel ( to allow for tunneling, underground objects, and terrain destruction ), and dynamic projected lighting value into the last channel of this a8r8g8b8 texture (this is actually 2 levels of shadowing, but I'm trying to keep the description simple ). Valve's Source engine uses this type of shadow on their dynamic models[2048^2 x1]
- (Nx) Self shadows dynamically allocated / updated / destroyed by dynamic objects entering a near radius to the camera. These are per-object self shadow maps fit tightly to the object's OOBB from lights POV ( this is also how the Source Engine SUPPLEMENTS their projected shadows) I use these for player controlled vehicles, near vehicles, player controlled characters, and near characters... these are 32bit floating point textures [ 1024^2 xnNearObjects ]

Total number of shadow textrues = (3 + numNearSelfShadowedObjects)


In practice it's maybe 25% less memory / fill area than a single 4096x4096 Shocked thats with 2-3 dynamic self shadowed objects, ususally theres only 1 or 2 near the camera.

Combine the above with a very aggressive LOD/Culling/VIS and it works as good / better as 4 slices of PSSM @ 1024^2 but with all kinds of benifits.

Anways, once your levels get bigger and as you require more quality youre gonna have to update them every frame, also to avoid big 'LEAPS' in dynamic time of day you have to update the shadowmaps every frame, you'd be suprised how much daylight shadowing can change in a few seconds [ minutes if you were standing outside in the real world ] it will cause noticible flickering.

Hell, it even flickers in Crysis [ multiplayer w/ dynamic time of day MOD], AND my game, and I change the time of day every second and update the maps every frame. Surprised

EDIT: After a few hours of playing I MEAN, testing! TF2, it appears as if Source doesn't actually SUPPLEMENT their projected character shadow maps with per-object self shadow maps in TF2... they seem to just use some kind of spherical harmonics for character shadowing most likely [ as in first Half Life engine ]. However I'm sure they support per-object self shadow maps on characters though, I could have sworn I've seen it in a Source game...I'm pretty sure they do it on CS:Source, and Left 4 Dead character models...too lazy to re d/l L4D to verify. One thing is for sure, you can see bugs in their projected shadows in Source Engine, they bleed through the floors [ this is an issue w project shadow as they don't do any depth comparisons, thats why I only use them for objects casting shadows onto the terrain, it falls apart on multiple level arbitrary geometry without non-efficient calculations being done to prevent bleeding across floor levels.
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I run this place.
"Some muckety-muck architecture magazine was interviewing Will Wright about SimCity, and they asked
him a question something like "which ontological urban paridigm most influenced your design of the simulator,
the Exo-Hamiltonian Pattern Language Movement, or the Intra-Urban Deconstructionist Sub-Culture Hypothesis?"
He replied, "I just kind of optimized for game play."

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adam450
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Joined: 11 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea for the static maps was to keep fill-rates down. Even if it is a local shadow map for the player, I can just snapshot the static stuff every second, and update the dynamic local one every frame. You could also do RGB channel, and render all the static stuff to the R channel, and dynamic stuff to the G channel. That way it would still not write as many pixels.

Regardless, I have a new demo. Your probably busy, but if not, it's a whole lot better.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=6e2367b765d6be49d2db6fb9a8902bda
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